a big story and a big concern for everyone in this country. >> it will be interesting in 2013 to see what the political situation is like in washington. >> i would bet on a lot more indebtedness by the federal government. and i would also add a prayer that the republicans and democrats will work together to avoid that. we've just got to get together. disaster is not red or blue. it's got to be america and we don't want it. >> and we don't want to cash in our chips but that's our final hand. thanks to our guest for being here and thanks for watching. i'm tom foreman, wishing you all the best and none of the worst in 2013.

tonight, with pastor warren talks religion, reason and what america needs now. >> the good news lnt good much. what you need is the better life. >> from the election and economy to same sex marriage and more. the issues that really matter. >> why we have to change the constitution? it's a flawed document. it was made my men. >> what does god mean to you? this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening and happy holidays. welcome to this special "piers morgan" tonight. joining me, one of the most influential leaders in the world. it's rick warren. tonight we're going to talk about faith, fem, politics, sins, the questions of church and state and much, much more. pastor warren is the author of "a purpose driven life." welcome. >> good to be with you. >> owhat is the purpose of

christmas. >> well, you know, the angels in the story of the first christmas said three thing bps and those three statements say the three purposes of christmas. they are celebration, salvation and reconciliation. the first thing the angels said was i bring you good news of great joy which shall be for all people. christmas isn't for christians. it says it's for all people. good news and great joy. it's a time to party. i love it that in the northern hemisphere that christmas comes in the darkest part of the year. you know, there's so much bad news in the world, we need good news. so the first purpose is celebration. i bring you good news of great joy. it's legitimate to have parties. then it says for unto you is born this day a savior who is christ the lord. we all need saving, saving from our sins, saving from ourselves, saving from our weaknesses. but there's a lot of other salvati salvations, too. a lot of people need to be saved out of their seasonses. they need a financial salvation

or a relational salvation or a physical salvation from an illness, something like that. it's a time to really look to god for salvation. and then in the third, it says, you will have peace on earth, good will towards men. that's the reconciliation. you know as well as i do, a lot of times people go home for holiday, it's something but reconciliation. a lot of bad relationships. it's time for forgiveness, a time for reconciliation, time to restore harmony. so i tell people, i say have fun, look to god, and get right with your friends and neighbors. that's the purpose of christmas. >> it's interesting you said it's hope to everybody. it's a misconception, i think, that it's only for christians. >> it says for all people. in fact, this christmas, my message is actually called for all people. when i started saddleback church, we were a lily white angelo suburban church in 1980. today our church speaks 67 languages. >> real sfli. >> yeah.

we are literally united nations. >> do you get people from all religions? >> oh, of course. every background, every religion, every race. it literally is heinz 57 variety. >> a muslim or a jew or whoever it may be. >> we're an overtly christian church. i believe jesus is who he said he was, the sun of god. but we welcome all people of all persuasions and we say check us out. when jesus went out to start his ministry, the very first phrase he said, he's walking along and john the bap baptist has a couple of people following him and they say there goes the lamb of god. go follow him. and they said where are you going lord? here are jesus' first words. come and see. that's about as little commitment as you can ask, check us out. we say to people, you don't have to say anything, sign anything, sacrifice anything, just check us out. >> america is going through a

slight down drop, if you like, in attendance, in churches. one in five in the u.s. public are now religiously unaif fill yated. one of three adults under 30 are unaffiliated. to put it in perspective, still way ahead of most other countries, certainly in the western world. america remains a very religious country, why do you think it's on decline. >> i think there are three different factors. one factor, the actual number of atheists in the country has pretty much remained the same since 1950, but they're simply more vocal. and that is true. second, surveys out thereto are asking the wrong questions. i think there was a pew survey that said asked a question about protestantism. there was an article that said the decline and fall of christian america. and it said protestants in

america have dropped precipitously. well, of course they have. i don't know a single person who calls themselves protestant. so sometimes the question may be wrong. but i think also, i think during the last decade, the term evangelical became not a theological term but a political term. and a lot of people were turned off by the politics. they say everyone knew that george bush was an evangelical. oh, then you must be in favor of the gulf war. so it got co-opted as a political term. anytime you do that, you're going to have divisions. >> that's why the separation of church and state is so important. george bush when he was president certainly used his faith and evangelical adherence to almost turn the conflict in iraq and afghanistan almost into a holy war. i thought that was a very dangerous thing for an american president to do and reinforce why i believe you've got to

separate church and state. >> you're right in that. but let me give a counter point. he also used his faith to authorize the greatest single health bill in history for people with aids. it was a $15 billion bill. in the last 10 years i've been in 165 countries. itch people who say my husband is alive because of president bush. >> i'm a catholic. my big issue with ka tholism, for example. i'm not the most devout catholic you're ever meet. in't be equate what the pope says, for example, about contracepti contraception, particularly condoms in africa. i can't see how it doesn't cost millions of lives to not be able to say, as the pope, the holy father, where there are so many catholics in africa, look. there are two uses for condoms. one is for the preepgs of conception.

and the other is prevention of disease. if you're using it if for prevention of disease, then i endorse it. >> i would side with you on that. i'm not a catholic. what i found in our working with people around the world to produce aids. >> you campaign a lot on aids. >> my wife and i have a foundation called acts of mercy, which has given millions of dollars to people with hiv/aids. and what we do is we work with people as far as they can go. i don't have a problem with contraceptives, uh be i'll work with catholics to stop aids as far as they can go. i'll work with gays as far as they can go. i'll work with anybody as far as they can go. so i don't insist that they change their fundamental view in order to say where do we have common ground? can so i may not agree on that issue.

a jewish person says we don't eat pork, fine. i support you in your conviction, don't eat pork. anticipate i don't think you should be forced to eat pork or even sell it. >> you're one of those evangelicals where you news pretty moderate language and you appear to be more tolerant pl although i'm kol to things you said to me and challenge you a bit. but certainly when you talk to someone like joe, he will start talking about sin and sinners and all the rest of it. we're in a modern age, if you brand sections of the community sinners because you believe that's what the bible has told you to say, you are demonizing these people. and i find that hard to deal with. by all means, don't agree. everyone is entitled to their view. i don't like the demonizing.

>> i believe everyone has sin in their lives. i believe the scripture tells me to focus on my own sin and to focus on loving you. a lot of times we have that reversed. i'm focused on my -- your sin and loving myself. >> if you were focusing on my sin, you would look older than you do. >> the "london times" had a contest that said what's wrong with the world. g.k. chesterton had those two words on it that said "i am." the first sentence of my book is it's not about you. i was trying to think of the first counterstatement i could think of. every advertisement says we do it all about you, it's all about you. it's almost like a little slap in the face that says it's not

about you. what was interesting is when i wrote that, i had no idea how many times i personally was going to be tested on that sentence for the rest of many i life. sometimes i have to say that five, ten times a day. if if i get criticized i have to say it's not about you. if i get praised, it's not about you. i just have to say it over and over and over. >> do you like the extraordinary position of responsibility that you now have for yourself? >> i don't say that i like it, but i try to use it. when i wrote this book "purpose driven life" and it became the best selling book in his are and the most translated book in the world, 137 languages off the bible, that brought in an enormous amount of money and an enormous amount of attention. honestly, piers, it scared me.

i never put our services on television. i didn't want to be a celeb pi. with so i had to start praying about the stewardship of affluence and influence. when you write the best-selling book in american history, it's tens of millions of dollars, i could have gone and bought an island and retired and have people serve me iced tea with little umbrellas for the pres of my life. but when you write a book and the first sen sense tense is it's not about you. you have to believe the money is not about you. what do you do about not the affluence, but the influence. one time i found a passage in the bible that changed my life. it's written by solomon, the son of david. he was the wealthiest man, the king of israel at his apex of power. in that passage, he says god, i want you to make me famous. it sounds like the most self-centered prayer you can

imagine. i want you to spread my name to every country. then he says so that the king may support the widow and orphan, defend the defenseless, release the prisoner. he says, care for the immigrant. and out of that passage, it came to me, the purpose of influence is to speak up for those who have no influence. the reason i've been silent in the media most of the last four years, ichs overseas in little villages, nobody ever heard of. i was literally trying to help people that nobody ever heard of. the purpose of influence is to speak up for those who have no influence. >> et let's take a break. i want to talk about sex even marriage, sin and how many lustful thoughts you have on an hourly basis. [ male announcer ] it's that time of year again.

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all marriage problems come down to one of five areas -- money, sex, in-law, communication and children. when kay and i got married, we went 5 for 5 in the first month. and our marriage was down dooby doo down down. >> let's try to work out the permutations which enabled money, sex, in-laws, communication and children all to go down in the same month. that seems pretty dra mat pick. >> a gallup poll shows the number one cause of divorce is money. of course, during this last four or five years in economic recession as a pastor, i've had to deal with a lot of marriages

under enormous stress when either one or both are out of the work. it puts additional stress on everybody. >> it really does, doesn't it? more than anything. people lose their sense of purpose. if they haven't got a job, for example. their sense of identity. their sense of self-worth. their pride. there's nothing worse than being unemployed in terms of your pride. >> one of the things i try to teach people is that your value has nothing to do with your valuables. that your self-worth has nothing to do with your net worth. and that the greatest things in life aren't things. they're not things. if anything when he w we put in our lives it becomes a great deal of sense of security. there's a symbol, it's worry. worry says, i'm assuming responsibility god never intended for me to have.

>> when you see americans rushing out by millions to play the lottery, the power ball, whatever it may be, desperate to try to win an amount of money that would change their lives, is it healthy? >> well, no, it's not healthy. the book of proverbs says it is foolish to try to do get rich quick schemes. that's really what vegas is all about. get rich quick, or powerball or something like that. >> say someone wins a lot of money. and they then devote a large chunk of that to helping needy people, people less fortunate than themselves, does that balance it out? >> well, the studies show -- no, it doesn't. the studies show that people who actually win the lottery, it doesn't really use change their life for the better. because you still have the same problems that you had all along. and money can't solve those. what money does, money gives us opportunity. so if i have more money, i've got more opportunity. that's a good thing. i'm not against people. i want piano em to prosper. but

it's not the end all -- what we think we want is the good life. and the good life is looking good, feeling good, and having the goods. the problem is i've talked to a lot of people. my church is filled with people who have those three things. white collar workers and they look good, they feel good, they have the goods. and a lot of books have come out and said if i'm so successful, why do i feel like a fake? and the reason is because the good life isn't good enough. what you need is a better life. i think that's what jesus offers. when i was a little kid, my parents served me strained spinach. i thought that was really tasty. today, i think parents should be in prison fwr child abuse for serving that because it's pretty nasty stuff. but i thought strained spinach was really good. until i got a little bit older they served me chef boyarde

boyardee spaghetti-o's. i thought that was good until i discovered in and out burger. if there was a better life, wouldn't you want to know about it? i'm not one of those pastors or preachers who say i'm trying to scare you out of hell and into heaven. i say, you need the lord in your life, not because you're going to die tonight, but because you've got to live tomorrow. and you need not the better life -- the good life, you need the better life. >> you and your wife can't be married 37 years, very long and successful marriage. have you had big problems in that marriage? if you're honest? >> oh, absolutely. our problems started on the honeymoon. we had a very unusual courtship. i took my wife out on our first date and eight days later, we were engaged. before we even had a second date. and then at the end of that, we were going to college together. at the end of that year, she moved to birmingham, alabama, to work at an inner city african-american church.

i moved to nagasaki, japan, to teach english. our entire courtship, we were apart. it was by letters. so when we actually got married, it was like we knew we were in love with each other and we felt god put us together. but it was like, and who are you? and my wife and i are the exact opposite in every detail of our dna except our commitment to each other and the lord. the thing that made us last, we said divorce is not an option for us. we're going to make this thing work if it kills us. and there were times it nearly did. at one point, i ended up in the hospital from depression over our marriage problems. kay thought she was having a nervous breakdown. and we went to a counselor. at that time, i was working at a college and i was making $8 lurks a month and my counseling bill was $100 a week. we wracked up a $15 lurks counselikoun --

$1,500 counseling bill. was it worth it? are you kidding me? she's my best friend. i often thought i should do a commercial called mastercard -- priceless. saved my marriage. priceless. when people say, you know, i can't afford marriage counseling. i say you can't afford not. how much is your marriage worth? >> do people give up on marriage too early these days? >> i think so. >> they don't fight enough for it? >> the problem is, you're an imperfect person. two imperfect people can't create a perfect relationship. we expect our mate to fulfill in us in our lives something that only god can fulfill. and you're going to be disappointed. no person could possibly meet all your needs. >> what happens if you marry quite young. say you're in your early 20s. and everyone knows you change a lot in the next decade. you get to your mid 30s, you

think i don't want to spend the rest of my life with someone i'm completely incompatible with. >> before people get married, opposite attracts. it's what makes you interesting is you're different from that person. >> if you know in your heart it's dead. >> before you get married, opposites attract. after you get married, opposites attack. and the very thing that interested you now becomes an irritation. and about six months in the marriage, all the things you thought were really cool you're now going, can't you be a little bit more like me? now, here are the things that i've learned. love is a choice. you love who you choose to love. and so when people say i fell in love, they make it sound like it's falling in a ditch. you had no control over it. you have no control over attraction. you have control over choice. once you've chosen. people say i fell out of the love. that's your choice. you can choose to work on it. and here's what i notice, piers.

the greater the differences in a marriage, the more powerful the marriage comes if they will work at it. the very thing that drives you apart, if you'll work on it, you will learn the most from that person. they will learn -- they will learn from you. >> hold that thought. i want to ask you my trademark question. how many times have you been properly in love? >> okay. >> he gulped there. questions? anyone have occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas, bloating? yeah. one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. approved! [ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'. [ female announcer ] live the regular life. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much. i appreciate it. i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money?

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>> we left our viewers on a cliffhanger there. how many times have you been properly in love in your life? >> welsh probably in my teenage years i fell in love every week. >> that doesn't really count. >> you know, i bet i fell in love two to three times. and each girl i fell in love with, the next one was better suited for me than the one before until i found kay and she was the best suited of all. given the right situation, you can fall in love with anybody. you can put two people on the right island, put them in the right circumstances, you could fall in love with anybody. it takes more than love to make a marriage work. and just because you fell in love with somebody doesn't mean you should marry them. there's a lot of other factors involved. >> but when you accept when you fall in love with a woman, it feels completely natural. >> it's not only natural, it's

euphoric. it doesn't stay. >> so why do you have such a problem with a man who quite naturally falls in love with another man. or a woman with another woman. why can you not allow them to have that euphoria that you have with all the rights that go with that kind of relationship? >> great question. the bible says you can love anybody. there is nothing in the bible that says a man can't love a man. in fact, there are many examples of men loving men in scripture. the bible says you just can't have sex with everybody. i can't very i fall in love with lots of different women. it doesn't mean i should have sex with them. what's often framed as a love issue is not the issue. i'm commanded to love everybody. as a believer in jesus christ, i'm not allowed to hate anybody. i'm not allowed to disrespect anybody. i'm commanded -- in fact, jesus said if you don't love everybody, you don't love me. it's not a love issue.

>> you say you're a tolerant man. i don't dispute that. yet last time i interviewed you, you got in a lot of hot water with the gay community because you said the reason you were opposed to gay marriage, for example, is not everything is natural, like gay attraction is good for you. and you compared it to arsenic. >> can i pull that back? >> yes. >> i would like to pull both of that. i stand by the statement that not everything natural is good for me. but the illustration was stupid. i pull it back. i disavow it. it was a dumb thing to say. >> did you realize afterwards -- >> it sounded offensive. there's nothing wrong with disagreeing with somebody. there is something wrong with being offensive. >> that's my point about this. i have complete respect, having been brought up a catholic. many catholics in anti-contracepti anti-contraception, anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage.

i have no problem with respecting their views. but the moment i start hearing the kind of rhetoric that kurt cameron, the "growing pains" star came out with on our show. the gay lifestyle being the abomination of the world, i get angry. i'm not gay. but if i'm gay and listening to this, i'm thinking who are you to tell me i'm the abomination to the world. you're one of the most influential men in the world for your teachings and the books and so on. and they're looking to you for guidance at a time when america in particular is going through an incredibly fast sea change in attitude to many things. now, what are you going to do in your guilded ivory tower of responsibility and influence as you see more and more american states supporting and voting and making legal gay marriage. are you going to continue saying to people that come to your congregati congregation, it is just wrong? >> well, --

>> or does there come a time when you say america has changed. i need to change. >> i have a world view based on scripture that remains unchanged. opinion changes. popular opinion changes all the time. what was popular in the 18th century is not popular in the 19th, 20th, 24th. if you build your life on popular opinion you're on shifting sands. in fact, science changes. nothing is more worthless than a science textbook from the '50s. >> but what shouldn't change from the original constitution of america, surely. >> my faith isn't based on the constitution, it's based on -- >> i get that. but america in terms of its populism, it's about fairness and equality. i went to see "lincoln" the movie a few weeks ago. it was a riveting movie, daniel day lewis is brilliant as lincoln. but all about how he fought in his last few months as president to get slavery apolished. there were millions of americans who thought slavery was

perfectly acceptable. who was outraged at what he was doing. he was not trying to make something popular at the moment. he knew instinctively it was just wrong, unfair, unequal. >> and why did he know that? because it's in the bible. >> right, but we had this discussion. >> it's in the bible. he was building it on biblical truth. the bib the bible says every man should be free. >> but you don't believe every man should be free and equal? >> of course we're free and of course we're equal. you can love anybody you want to. >> but you don't think a gay man or woman should be free to be married like a straight man or woman. so what is freedom? >> what i oppose is redefining a term. now, let me explain this. you know, jews, there's a group called jews for jesus. and jewish feel don't like jews for jesus because they say, wait a minute, you don't get to

redefine a term. if you believe in jesus, you're not really a jew. >> let me make my point here. if a word means a certain thing and it's not my word and all of a sudden i say well, i'm that, is that fair? is that right? >> so you wouldn't have amended the constitution. >> i'm not sure what you're saying. >> why would you ever have an amendment to the constitution if you can't change the original wording or meaning. certainly the point of the all the amendments is that they are moving with the times. recognizing that certain words, phrases, meanings were just plain not right for the modern era. >> you're you can thatting about the two different understandings of the constitution right now. there are strict constructionists who say it means what it means what it means. there are others who say to, i want it to mean what i mean

today. >> but the amendments are moving with the times. that's what all the amendments were basically about. >> you know why we have to change the constitution? it's a flawed document. it was made by men. my world view is the bible was made by god, not by men. and it doesn't change. >> but you and i know the bible is a flawed document. >> i don't agree with that. >> you think the bible is completely accurate? >> i think the bible is true. not everything that is explained in the bible does the bible commend. for instance, there's rape in the bible. the bible is clearly against rape. in fact, if you open the bible, you'll find more rape, murder, incest, all kinds of problems, why? the bible always tells the truth. any other book, if it was writing about these great people in the past, it tended to gloss over their sins. >> but the bible says if you commit adultery you're going to be stoned to death. >> as we said before, that's a

civil law for the nation of israel. >> but it's still an element of the bible that is flawed. >> well, evidently for that generation, that's their commandment. >> exactly my point. exactly like the constitution. >> but it's not one of the moral laws. >> but it's still in the bible and it's flawed. >> i do not believe the bible is flawed. >> well intentioned and inher t inherently flawed. my point to you about gay rights, for example, it's time to an amendment to the bible. >> no. >> you should compile a new bible. >> not a chance. what i believe is flawed is human opinion because it constantly changes. in fact, we do it every eight years in america. we have a change in opinion. what was hot is now not. and i willingly admit that i base my world view on the bible, which i believe is true. and truth, my definition of truth is, if it's new, it's not

true. if it was true 1,000 years ago, it will be true 1,000 years from today. opinion changes but truth doesn't. >> when we come back, we're going to talk about children. >> piers, we need more of this kind of talk. >> i agree. the debate should always be respectful. it applies to politics, too. the moment it becomes disrespectful and discourteous and rude and poisonous, you never achieve anything. >> let's go to the gay issue. i don't see many people willing to debate it. it's either my way or nothing. i don't see anyone actually willing to talk about it. >> let's talk about children and charity when we come back. a hybrid? most are just no fun to drive. now, here's one that will make you feel alive. meet the five-passenger ford c-max hybrid.

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for many people, it's incredibly depressing, sad, lonely time. how do you try to change the fact that christmas becomes a crystallization for many people of all that's terrible in their lives. >> if you attach a holiday to a memory, that's either good or bad. if you attach it to current memories you tend to repeat those. if christmas for you brings up a

time of strife, conflict, i'm not with my family, we're divorced or we're separated or whatever, of course that's a very depressing time. my suggestion is that people develop a new habit. create a new habit and attach it to the holiday instead of continuing to look backwards. when i was 3 yoears old, i aske my mother, why do we have christmas? and my mom said well, it's jesus' birthday my mind was, then why don't we have a birthday party. we could have cake and kool aid and and jegels could come down be us. we had a birthday party for jesus. we will do it for the 55th time in my life. we do it on christmas eve. and what we do, the family all gathers, whoever is in that

particular year, and we go around the room. it is our family tradition. everybody shares one thing they're thankful for the last year. but they can go on as long as they want to. and it's a time of very meaningful sharing. and then we say one thing i want to give god or give jesus for his birthday this year, and we share that. then we sing, we literally sing happy birthday to jesus. the youngest kid blows out a candle, perspective an angel food cake, not devil's food. and we have a birthday party for jesus. that has become something our family looks forward to every year. now, it's funny when the kids were little, when we were little, the sharing was short and quick and laugh ten err a lot of giggles. now that i have grand kids, it's short and fun like that. i think you can create a habit or a tradition, create a new tradition to overcome the negativity that is in the past. >> you give away 90% of the income.

>> it's called a tithe. at the end of the first year marriage, we gave away 11, the end of the second, 12. every year we would raise it. when i would get a bonus or we have a raise, we would raise it 3% or 4%. on the years that the cup board was bare and we were bare lly making it, we would raise it a quarter of a percent. every time i give, it breaks the grip of materialism in my life. materialism is all about getting. get, get, get. get all you get, can all you get, sit on the can and spoil the rest. giving is the antidote to materialism. there's a famous verse that says god so loved the world that he gave. you can give without loving but you can't love without giving. so now, we've raised it every year. actually last year, we raised it again. we now give away 91% and live on

9. i played this game with god for 37 years. you give to me and i'll give to you and we'll see who wins. i lost for 37 year fs. >> do you know how much you're worth? >> no, i don't. we're constantly giving it away. we have three different charities. one is for people affected by hiv/aids. also helps orphans and vulnerable women and children from around the wrld. we have another charity called training leaders where we train leaders in vailages around the world. and the third is called a peace plan, which is promote reconciliation, equip leaders, assist the poor, care for the sick, educate the next generation. i want to say to everybody who's watching, it's not a sin to the wealthy, it's a sin to die wealthy. okay? in other words, money is a tool. it can be used for good or for bad. money is neither good nor bad, but it can be used for good or

used for bad. bill gates told me one time, rick, use money to save time. that's a brilliant time. because you see, i only have 168 hours a week. we all have the exact same amount of time. we don't have the same amount of money. we all have the same amount of time. once i spend that time, i'm never getting it back. we can always get more money. if you use money to save time, that's a valuable investment of money. >> let's talk about your diminishing status. i mean physically. you're wasting away. and apparently so are 50,000 other people. i want to talk to you about this. i need you. i feel so alone. but you're not alone. i knew you'd come. like i could stay away. you know i can't do this without you. you'll never have to.

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[ male announcer ] when diarrhea hits, kaopectate stops it fast. powerful liquid relief speeds to the source. fast. [ male announcer ] stop the uh-oh fast with kaopectate. you're making it part of your mission to take care of the temple of the soul. and that is not a place where as physicians we have commonly gone. we go to church. we don't speak about our bodies in church. this gives us an opportunity to change the equation. >> dr. oz talking at rick warren's saddleback church. he's an impressive guy. >> he is. >> you've lost 60 pounds with this diet program -- >> i have 40 more to go, though. >> it's interesting. it's called the daniel plan. >> yeah. >> you and the church have been doing this together. 15,000 people have signed up. participants have shed a combined total of 250,000

pounds. how do you combine diet with prayer? >> it's funny how this thing started. about a year ago -- first place, i've never cared about how i looked. i didn't care how i looked. i was blessed with enormous energy. so i never really paid attention. we baptize in our church after every service. once a month, i baptize. and about a year ago, i was doing a baptism and we do it the old-fashion way. we put people under the water. on this day i had 857 people to baptize. took me a few hours. on about number 500, i had a thought, and it wasn't a very spiritual thought. it wasn't a pastor thought. it was, man, we're all overweight. we're all fat. i thought, but i'm fat. and i can't expect other people to get in shape if i'm out of shape. so the next morning at church i got up and i said, you guys, i need to repent. i said, i've only gained two or

three pounds a year, but i've been your pastor for 32 years. so i need to lose 90 pounds. >> give me the bullet points of how it works. >> well, i went out and i got three doctors. dr. mehmet oz, dr. daniel ayman and dr. mark highman. oz said, you have to know your height, your weight, your waist and your cholesterol and your blood pressure. we set up a booth in our church and let people take those numbers. we opened a website called danielplan.com where they could follow it. i thought maybe 200 people would show up. 12,000 of my members signed up. as you pointed out, we lost over 250,000 pounds. i'm looking for the day our church says we lost the equivalent of a jumbo jet liner. diets are diets and there's a lot of similarities.

but the number one thing is this, we do it in community. most people don't understand that saddleback is not the sunday service. anytime a journalist comes to saddleback, they come to the service, they come on a weekend and see 20,000 people. they think that's in. that's the tip of the iceberg. the real church happens during the week in 6,000 small groups. we're the only church in america that has more people in bible study than on sunday. 20,000 come on sunday. 32,000 in small groups. these 6,000 small groups go from santa monica to carlsbad. everyone one has a health champion. they're the encourager of the daniel plan -- >> what have you stopped eating or what have you done new? >> it was real simple. i get out all white carbohydrates. >> no bread, no rice, no pasta. >> they don't call me pasta rick for nothing. that was my favor. >> ba-boom! >> so i cut out all white stuff. i personally cut out dairy.

i eat a lean protein, vegetables and a little bit of fruit. >> you drink alcohol? >> no. i never have. >> no? >> no. >> never had a crafty nip, never at christmas? >> never smoked either. >> i thought we had so much in common. i want to have your final thoughts on this holiday when we come back. [ male announcer ] citi turns 200 this year. in that time there've been some good days. and some difficult ones. but, through it all, we've persevered, supporting some of the biggest ideas in modern history. so why should our anniversary matter to you? because for 200 years, we've been helping ideas move from ambition to achievement. and the next great idea could be yours. ♪

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back for a final thought from pastor rick warren. also the author of "the purpose of christmas." we've got millions of people watching around the world, literally, in 200 places around the world. they want to know what they should be thinking, other than gorging themselves on turkey and fine wine. what would you say? >> the message of christmas is that babe in the manger didn't stay a babe in the manger. he grew up, died on the cross, he rose again. because of that, we can have a new purpose in our lives, we can have peace in our lives, we can have power in our lives. i say you can have your past forgiven, you can have a purpose for living. you can have